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My Experience never got that far...
 Posted by: MickCable
 Date: 07/13/2005, 15:27:04
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)

I never got that far into it...

I am not trying to say I am any better than those who got sucked into it for years, but I was able to get out without having to lose my shirt, I only paid for 2 videos and that was end of it...

I first ran into "M" when I was in my early 20s and it was about 1996 or 1997

I had a boss who had been following this guy around since the 70s. One day I noticed he had a cool looking watch, and I asked him where he got it. He said it was very special and had some deep symbolic meanings and that if I wanted to know more about it, he would tell me later. (The watch had symbols that repersented the 4 steps of "K")

Then one day after work he started telling me about this cool place were people go to watch videos and learn to live a more peacful and blissfull lives, he said it wasn't a cult or any kind of high pressure deal, he said if I didn't talk to anyone they wouldn't bother me. Just come check out a video presentation.

My first reaction was yeah this sure sounds like a fishy cult to me, maybe I'll go check it out and have something to hang over my boss's head someday if need be.

So I went to a video event, and it was just like he said, failry normal looking people just sitting around watching a video, no one asked for my personal information, and we watched a video. I had always known with proper training meditation could produce euphoric effects and it seemed like that is what it was going to lead to. He made references about those at their last breath etc.

My boss cornered me after work the following day and asked what I thought, I said well what's the deal? does this guy have some meditation techniques that help zone you out? My boss said he couldn't tell me, but said that I was very smart and perceptive and would be a likely cannidate for "K"

Well everyone likes being told they are smart and special and the events seemed very harmless and I started to go to video events on a regular basis, I quickly realized whatever "K" was, it was nothing that great on the surface, the videos were geared to grow this curiousity and desire for "K" so that by the time you received it, you were ready to explode with anticipation. I figured that if you followed the program no matter what the guy did even if he spit on you, you would be so filled up with these expectiations and desires for "K" you would think it was a good thing.

I would have left, but I started to get a lot better assignments at work, I knew it was a bunch of BS, but it was such a non-pressure situation, I figured it wouldn't hurt to keep it up and there was always an outside chance this guy discovered some cool natural high.

After about 4 months there was a live event with "M" in person near where I lived, and after that is when I realized that this was a cult for sure, some of the people at the event were really wierd, and refered to him as lord of the universe, and I learned about "service" for the first time, since I lived in the LA area, a lot of these people were doing stuff at his house, scrubbing his toliets, etc. I overheard a coversation were a woman was saying how her life was blessed after staying at his home for weeks scrubbing floors.

I told my boss the next week, that it was the end of the road for me, I told him that I respected his choices but I didn't see me as enjoying a life of "service" he said it was unfortunite that I overheard those conversations and that I was not ready for that yet, that when the times comes I will enjoy it and do it freely and lovingly. This really made me wonder what else was being kept from me, more and more I realized the biggest trap of it all was the no pressure, no big deal attitude at the first video events. That how they reel you in. By the fact that absoultely nothing is upfront about "M" I had had enough.

End result I got fired, aka laid off, and it all worked out okay, I got a much better job after all. I never thought much about it again until very recently. I accidently ran across an article about "M" and subsequently found several websites of ex-premies. I didn't realize how luckly I was that I got out when I did. I always thought that the guy was pretty much harmless and got off on adoration. I was also wondering how was I able to walk away so easily nobody tried to reel me back in. Is my story typical, or was I just really lucky that I had no fallout, or harrasment?

would love to hear your feedback

MC




Abuse of Power
 Posted by: JHB
 Date: 07/13/2005, 16:34:41
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
Mick,

One thing your story illustrates is the morality of your boss, which sadly is reflected in the morality expressed by followers of Rawat who post here and attack former followers who speak out about Rawat. Both giving you better assignments because you were expressing an interest in Rawat, and laying you off when you said you weren't interested, are examples of abuse of power by your boss. If you want to read where he learnt it, check out Prem Rawat's 'Trainings'.

John.



Related link: Prem Rawat's 'Trainings'
Modified by JHB at Wed, Jul 13, 2005, 16:39:39




Re: My Experience never got that far...
 Posted by: jonx
 Date: 07/13/2005, 16:40:09
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)

Mate, I can say with a degree of confidence the primary motivation of your boss in presenting Maharaji to you was genuine. My take is he thought you might benefit from it, like he feels he has. From your storey, one cannot say your motivation for going in the first place was genuine. It does not surprise me therefore that you ended up not pursuing it.

Regarding "service", ask some of the ex-premies about their experience -- let's call it, helping out in some way. At the time, it was a high and life-defining experience. For some that is still the case, even though ex-premies have written their time off as something negative.

As for your surprise that no one pursued you after you walked away? In 30 years I've never heard of anyone ever doing such a thing to someone who chose not pursue it. Hear's a secret that may explain why.....

It's not a cult!




Of course it's not a cult, Jon
 Posted by: JHB
 Date: 07/13/2005, 16:47:13
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
So explain again why we lined up to kiss Rawat's feet, and why he danced dressed as Krishna, and why we sang songs to him calling him Lord? (Songs personally selected by Rawat)

John.




Re: Of course it's not a cult, Jon
 Posted by: jonx
 Date: 07/13/2005, 17:17:14
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)

Okay, I'll bite.

There was a time when it was a cult. I'll be first to admit that. For some it no doubt still is. But that is a subjective reality projected onto the whole thing by a misguided individual. I'll also be the first to admit that in years past I too was one of those misguided people who followed the crowd more than my own heart, and it of course bent me somewhat out of shape. But as time passed, the substance of Knowledge deepened. And if there wasn't underlying substance, then I would agree a cult is all that it is. But substance there is!

So you tell me John, if there wasn't substance, what is it people get attracted to today, given all that stuff you mention is soooo pass? Because, as much as ex-premies do their best to downplay it, a lot of people are still getting interested and pursuing Knowledge... in the comfort of their own broadband internet service I might add.




What is the substance?
 Posted by: gerry
 Date: 07/13/2005, 17:21:47
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
I could never figure that out. I mean, there's meditation, which may or may not have an effect (calming, clearing the mind) and then there's guru worship. But where's the meat? How are premies any better off than non-premies?

And how do you know anyone is pursuing Knowledge these days? From the reports I've read, most meetings (other than Rawat presentations) are sparsely attended.




So if it was once a cult, Jonx, was Rawat once a cult LEADER?
 Posted by: Jim
 Date: 07/13/2005, 20:39:34
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)

Jonx,

Thanks for admitting that it was a cult, at least at some time.  Surely, then, Rawat was a cult leader during that period, don't you think?  Do you think he'd ever admit that? 




But, Jon, you still kiss his feet and sing Arti!
 Posted by: JHB
 Date: 07/13/2005, 23:27:45
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
Only your Elan Vital mouthpieces come up with some absurd (and you must admit they really are absurd) explanations of why you do it. If these were evidence of Rawat being the leader of a cult in the 1970s then they are evidence that he is the leader of a cult in 2005.

Regarding the 'substance', the experiences that some people are susceptible, to through meditation, prayer, or other means, are not evidence that Prem Rawat is anything special, and yet he demands that students keep him as their 'Master' until their dying breath.

Once a cult, always a cult.

John.




This Sounds like a good time to talk about 'Agya'
 Posted by: Hilltop
 Date: 07/13/2005, 23:48:17
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
In this attachment Prem Rawat or Guru Maharaj Ji talks about the meaning of 'Agya' ~ "It's like, you're told to do something and you do it."

Sounds like cult talk to me... "A true disciple always obeys the agya of his Master" etc.

From "Life With Knowledge" a Premie Guidebook, DLM 1975, AGYA - Chapter 6, Page 15.

image of Maharaji agya speech




Utter BS!
 Posted by: Danny
 Date: 07/14/2005, 07:14:33
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
Jonx,

First you say "From your storey, one cannot say your motivation for going in the first place was genuine. It does not surprise me therefore that you ended up not pursuing it."

I commend you on your incredible ability and talent to suss out or judge whether a person is genuine or not , simply by reading their post! (my BS detecter is up and running)... is this your objective opinion?

Next you say.... "There was a time when it was a cult. I'll be first to admit that. For some it no doubt still is. But that is a subjective reality projected onto the whole thing by a misguided individual"

A subjective reality? Projected by a misguided individual?

Hmmm, in medical terms ...subjective is what an individual perceives his or her state to be.... so I guess you and others do realize you are part of a cult! If you or others still remain even though you do recognize that you are in a cult...then I question your sense of right and wrong! Or at least your ability to make choices. 'Objective' means as viewed from others.

'Projected by a misguided individual'.... I read this as your admitting that m was the 'misguided' individual that was projecting this "onto the whole thing".

Well, you can't have it both ways.... as has been stated....either m and his group are a cult or they are not!

You can't be a cult for some and not for others and then claim never to have been one.... except for a few, but not for new people joining, until they get to the point where they 'understand' more and are convinced to take part in the cult aspects of the group, that doesn't exist except for a few. ::::head spinning:::::

Also JONX.....why don't you tell us what is attractive to people today about m? Of course that is ASSUMING that people ARE being attracted! (not talking about in India)

Since PWK's cannot talk about k or m.... and what is being presented is only a highly polished .. scrubbed clean...censored view of m or k, what is the attraction(if any)?

To learn from an international speaker, yet not ever talking to him in person? To learn meditation techniques from videos that m himself spoke about years ago as being impossible as you needed a "living" master to impart the techniques? To find 'peace within' yet have to rely on that which is without (M) to experience it? To be part of a group that pays to support a person that doesn't even know you? (you can send me $1 million if you want),

This sounds too much like a Tony Robbins infomercial to me~~~




Sorry, jonx, it still is a cult.
 Posted by: Babaluji
 Date: 07/13/2005, 17:38:57
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
By every definition of the word, the 'charismatic' Maharaji and his magic and secret Knowledge or whatever is a personality cult. And it's as much of a cult today as it was then. However, I appreciate your honesty in finally admitting that it was a cult. So, jonx, just take one more step and call it for what it still is today, a cult, and you'll have made some real progress in terms of your own integrity. And you will have made great strides in not insulting those of us who where there from the early 70's and through the 90's and even until recent years. We know. We were there. And we were there until very recently.

And Maharaji was fully complicit in making it a cult. Look at this picture!!! No one forced him to sit on a throne wearing a crown. No one forced him to sit on a throne while we passed by and kissed his feet and stuffed boxes and buckets full of envelopes of cash and other gifts.

And, thanks, MickCable. You and jonx can watch some really funny videos of Maharaji and his cult here:

http://gurumaharaji.info/video/

http://gurumaharaji.info/video/lord_of_the_universe/

And listen to satsangs here: http://gurumaharaji.info/audio/

image of Maharaji with crown and mala




Regarding Service... It means you are a servant or (slave)
 Posted by: Hilltop
 Date: 07/13/2005, 22:39:21
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
This attachment comes from the Premie Guidebook - "Life With Knowledge" ~ DLM 1975, Chapter 4 ~ Doing Service, Page 11.

image of Maharaji agya speech



"power over" or "power with"?
 Posted by: shelagh
 Date: 07/14/2005, 08:36:18
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)

Hi MickCable.  Thanks for sharing your experience.  It got me thinking about power--personal power, abuses of power, and the discussion in more recent times by various luminaries of the human potential movement about the important difference between having "power over" someone, as opposed to having "power with".  It's a simple way to test the efficacy of something in our lives--does it truly help us move forward or not?  Or conversely, are we encouraging another, or merely interfering and controlling?  Since cults very definitely derive their sustenance from the
"power over" mode (you only have to see the millions of references to "agya" and "lila" in this cult's case) to see that it was absolutely NOT beneficial to the individual to even touch it with a barge-pole!  You acted on a good instinct there, and I'm sorry that it cost you your job (definitely an abuse of power there on the part of your boss!), but we all seem to have to learn things.  Isn't it ironic that we got into this thing called "Knowledge" because we wanted to learn something!  It's what's NOT KNOWLEDGE that I have learned most from.   

Good luck in finding and strengthening your personal power.

~Shelagh


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5 Brighter than 1000 suns as seen through night vision goggles
4 As bright as the lights on Maharaji's jet
3 As bright as a 60 watt light bulb
2 As bright as a pile of burning ghi on a swinging arti tray
1 As bright as the inner light as seen by the third eye

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