THE CAT'S WHISKER

Editor's Note:

This is an interesting discussion in the Catbox or "Rats and Mice" forum frequented by premies. It's interesting to see an actual dialogue until Catweasel gets wind of what's going on and tries to butt in and stop the discussion. One wonders whether the posts will be deleted or edited. Also, I'd like to point out that Maharaji's cost for the 45 tons of donated rice would only be about $5400 based on a 2000 pound ton with a price per pound of 6 cents. If it was a metric ton (2204 pounds) the cost would be $5950.80. So, we're really talking peanuts here.

As for the eye surgeries, I very much doubt Maharaji actually paid for anything more than the physical space for the doctors to hold a clinic. Quite typically, there are groups of doctors offering their services for FREE world wide. They pay for their own travel expenses and supplies. They donate their time. I'd bet dollars to cheap donuts that Maharaji paid for nothing other than a building for a weekend.

And if someone has the actual details, I'd love to hear them.

 Date:  Tues, Feb 17, 2004 at 17:28:40 (EST)
 Posted by:  Sakda
 Original URL:  Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
 Subject:  Is Maharaji a Humanitarian Leader?
Hi Georgio and DavidJ

For a moment put aside the fact that I may or may not be a former follower of Prem, I really would appreciate your opinion on what the 850 eye consultations that Prem paid for really means.

Let me be honest here. Frankly I think that Prem did this (and the free rice thing) simply to make himself look good. After all the costs for these really are small by comparison to what he and his foundation take from his followers.

Look Georgio and DavidJ I see both of you as reasonable people who do look at things from a common sense point of view. I hope that you can answer my questions in an honest way - even after I have made it clear as to what I think. Please let your honest views convince me that I am wrong.

Many thanks.

Sakda
Payub - Chiangmai





 Date:  Tues, Feb 17, 2004 at 17:28:40 (EST)
 Posted by:  Giorgio
 Original URL:  Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
 Subject:  About your question...
Personally I don't really care what Maharaji's good deeds are like in this world. I don't feel he has come for that. But honestly when I first saw this message on the Net I thought...mmm where is he going with that? Then I let a few days pass by and felt he was maybe manipulated to do so... for the medias. Then again a few more days went by before I made my final opinion about it. What I feel is that opposed to what you think about the foundation and Maharaji's finacial status, made me see that he now has some kind of financial freedom to do things for this world in a wordly way as well. Meaning by that he also acts like a man, beside being a master. That made me feel pretty good about it. To me it means he comes to the point where he has some personal financial freedom to do as he please with the foundation's revenue. And that shows he is right on the money... as always. Perhaps rice is not so useful in your eyes, and eye sight healing doesn't seem like the most important thing to do in our view. But again maybe not for those who needed it.

So you wanted an honest answer...you got it!

Maharaji is there for people in a way he can. Maybe we'll see more of these 'humaniterian' actions in the future. I have no idea...but I am glas I got rid of my own doubts. Just put yourself in the picture without your personal agenda/judegments about money and so on... then you might see something good about it.

Is that enough of a straight answer?

Cheers!



 Date:  Tues, Feb 17, 2004 at 18:19:19 (EST)
 Posted by:  Sakda
 Original URL:  Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
 Subject:  Re: About your question...
Dear Giorgio

Thanks for coming to the chat. I knew I could depend on you to give me a well thought out answer. I appreciate that.

Please have a read of my posts to David below (before someone comes along and deletes them!). It is not only what Maharaji does that I'm concerned about but also his followers. As I agreed with David it is the innner awareness and understanding that has to come first and then actions. 30 years and counting. Where? Oh right - some medical and food attention costing several thousands.

cheers to you as well - and I mean that sincerely.

Sakda



 Date:  Tues, Feb 17, 2004 at 17:28:40 (EST)
 Posted by:  DavidJ
 Original URL:  Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
 Subject:  Re: Repost - Hotboards playing up :-)
Maharaji primarily offers a way to go inside to experience peace and joy. Offering eye-exams or rice is just icing on the cake. I don't see anything sinister about it. Do you? But it isn't primarily what he has to offer the world either.

David



 Date:  Tues, Feb 17, 2004 at 17:40:35 (EST)
 Posted by:  Sakda
 Original URL:  Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
 Subject:  DavidJ
Of course I do not think there is any sinister in offering eye consultations - on the contray David I think that doing things like this is very good. In fact I would say that it is essential that we all do far more of exactly this type of thing. Also to provide the economic basis for peoples in developing countries to support themselves, so that they can afford the medical attention they need.

I also have no doubt that the vast majority of people who choose to follow Prem Rawat do so because they wish to experience something essential in their lives and, from that, go into this world and help people, economically, physically, mentally and spiritually. As I say I have absolutly no doubt that the vast majority of people want this.

But I wonder why so little of this happens amongst followers of Prem Rawat, nor Rawat himself. After all Prem Rawat has not arrived on the scene very recently. Surely by now Rawat, if he is who he claims to be, will have reached the sort of critical mass that would allow him, via his foundations and his followers, to really reach out in the way that is required. It is over 30 years now you know. Where are the results? What happened to the dream? Where did all the good intentions go to?

Really I'm willing to listen, really really listen to your point of view, but what I see so far is a sham and a play at the larger audience.

I don't want to argue in pointless point scoring about the past, really I don't. I want to know what happens NOW and in the FUTURE. Where is the energy and goodwill going to from HERE? Really?

I have made my peace with myself - and with Rawat. For several years now I've been waiting and looking, looking for a clue that he will, finally be that teacher and master who will show me. I have waited n vain even though the times have been good, yes good.

So I ask you again. Where now? What really was the point of those eye consultations, a meagre 850.

Maybe you will see this post, maybe you wont. I sense someone is deleting my posts all due to me being deemed 'off message'. But where is the message? I listen and wait.

love
Sakda



 Date:  Tues, Feb 17, 2004 at 18:05:16 (EST)
 Posted by:  Giorgio
 Original URL:  Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
 Subject:  ...and more...
You wrote:

'But I wonder why so little of this happens amongst followers of Prem Rawat, nor Rawat himself. After all Prem Rawat has not arrived on the scene very recently. Surely by now Rawat, if he is who he claims to be, will have reached the sort of critical mass that would allow him, via his foundations and his followers, to really reach out in the way that is required. It is over 30 years now you know. Where are the results? What happened to the dream? Where did all the good intentions go to?'

My answer is:

I know many people who have changed their lifestyle and are more aware of their environment and needs. But tell me...what can you really do against the powers who control this world, but just do what you can individually or with awareness groups such as greenpeace or wwwf...and many more I don't have in mind right now.
I feel I need to be very careful where I walk as well... Government interests are protected by finacially powerful individuals who create the rain and shine in this world. Not to mention political games and diplomatic hypocrisy. I just think we need to walk on eggs and present a low profile or as a race all react against the establish present negative powers. but i certainly will not go against it on my own... so i do what I can individually. And talking about Knowledge to people so they can find that beauty inside themselves is already half of the problem resolved. From there losts of positive changes in my own life I have seeing...so I can imagine what it can do to others who are human beings just like me. the dream is ours and we tend to define how a master ought to play it. but you seem to forget that every master came in this world with his own rules... and most of time they have been recognized for their message after they died. On the countrary, Maharaji is getting wordly recognition in a way that he cannot be judge for what he is doing. Beside some people are saying that he leads a cult... inlack of understanding what really lies within... what is there to hold against him... really?!

You want to see Maharaji doing more 'chritian' deeds...or premies taking action for saving the world? Sorry...I can't see that happening right now... but what the future holds is more real to me than the dream you forsee in your head/heart. You received Knowledge didn't you? So be honest as well... you can see how this function within before it can have effects on the outside. And maybe 30 years is a drop in the whole humanity saga... we need trust, patience, and acceptance before we can act with clarity. Everytime I try to resolve problems coming from other states, it just made it worse.
I only want to know, talk, walk and chew happiness. That's my ultimate goal...then maybe someone sees that in me and feels to be just attracted to have that in their own existence. that's my ultimate service to this world. because I CAN DO IT. I have seeing it for the past 24 years of my life since I received that precious gift.



 Date:  Tues, Feb 17, 2004 at 18:41:32 (EST)
 Posted by:  Sakda
 Original URL:  Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
 Subject:  Re: ...and more...
Dear Giorgio

I read your post and see a lot of understanding and love. An understanding that life is indeed very precious. Like you I feel and experience life as being very very precious and I live it to the full. And yes the power of meditation helps a great deal in feeling the preciousness of life for many. It did, does and will for me. For many it does not, but let that pass.

I have been a follower of Maharaji for many many years, since 1972 actually and for most of that time I thought and believed that he was a teacher. Someone that could really lead us in the way he promised. However when I really open my eyes and look around me I don't see any real teaching happening. I don't see the vast majority of people who follow Maharaji understanding the preciousness of life. Again I ask you, where is the tuition. A teacher teaches? yes? Or No?

But turning back to the points you made about what can be achieved in this world. I'm sorry but I'm a bit more optimistic than you seem to be. I really do believe that if people really understand the preciousness of this life than they can 'move mountains' - that is a figure of speech by the way.

But listen, it is nice chatting to you and David. It would be nice if a place could be found somewhere where people could discuss their points of view without flaming, rancour and bitterness. We have had some minor success today, for which I thank you for, but I fear that the armed guards circling around us will get the better of us - well me that is.

Be that as it may be. I write in peace and love and go in peace and love.

Sakda





 Date:  Tues, Feb 17, 2004 at 19:05:33 (EST)
 Posted by:  Giorgio
 Original URL:  Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
 Subject:  In response...
You wrote:

'Again I ask you, where is the tuition. A teacher teaches? yes? Or No?'
I don't see where you want to lead me at Sadka, and don't really want to follow that lead. Again...as far as I remain with my IDEAS of what a teacher ought to teach, I stay off track. This is no ordinary teacher we have my friend. As you must have noticed by now, he never answers to our thoughts and intellect... why is it so? SIMPLY BECAUSE HE RESPONDS TO THE HEART my friend. Period.

From there you can go on searching for an answer to your question. Unfortunatly, I can't give you that one. I myself don't need it. I got the answer I was searching for. Can't keep mas.....ting my brains for the rest of my human existence. I need peace man!

:o)

And yes it's nice to be able to just share our feelings without anger. So let's keep it to that level and the 'armed dogs' won't byte you or me... why would they anyway.



 Date:  Tues, Feb 17, 2004 at 18:05:16 (EST)
 Posted by:  DavidJ
 Original URL:  Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
 Subject:  The cart and the horse
Which comes first? The good deeds or the inner awareness. Should one do good deeds first and hope that an inner satifaction will come latter as a result? Or should one cultivate an inner awareness first and let good deeds come of their own accord?



 Date:  Tues, Feb 17, 2004 at 18:15:06 (EST)
 Posted by:  Sakda
 Original URL:  Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
 Subject:  Re: The cart and the horse
Dear David

I totally agree with you - the inner awareness must come first. Yes we have to have understanding of what is needed and then do that.

Again I ask you. Over 30 years?

I ses no evidence of a wholesale understanding and inner awareness. Of course I see that in a a few, but I don't see it being a common thread amongst most followers of Maharaji. What happened to the tuition?

as ever
Sakda



 Date:  Tues, Feb 17, 2004 at 17:40:35 (EST)
 Posted by:  FA
 Original URL:  Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
 Subject:  That looks like an attempt
to DEBATE!OK what's your REAL alias???
Maharaji didnt provide any Rice or eye consultations
TPRF did. Please engage your brain and attempt to understand the
difference. I deleted your post and I will do it again.
You cannot come here to engage people in your angst and questions.
It's simply NOT the purpose of the Forum
Do you get it?



 Date:  Tues, Feb 17, 2004 at 17:50:49 (EST)
 Posted by:  Schwinnng!
 Original URL:  Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
 Subject:  Re: Rice and Eye Care
Hey, Ex-holes:
How many have YOU fed?
How much care have YOU given?
How many people would cross the street to hear YOU, let alone travel for days?

I didn't think so.

Gotta be a hidden motive, huh? Sounds like Hate Cult-think.



 Date:  Tues, Feb 17, 2004 at 17:50:49 (EST)
 Posted by:  DavidJ
 Original URL:  Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
 Subject:  I tend to take people at face value
that is until I find out that they are leading me on or playing tricks on me. So I guess I am being intentionally naive for the moment.



 Date:  Tues, Feb 17, 2004 at 17:59:51 (EST)
 Posted by:  Sakda
 Original URL:  Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
 Subject:  Re: I tend to take people at face value
David

see my reply to you above somewhere. I'm not playing tricks - I want to hear your genuine point of view.

I see the armed guards swelling around you and me. Please ask them not to shoot yet - these are simply words we are exchanging.

love
Sakda

THE CAT'S WHISKER A Funky little spot for anyone feeling free and easy

5 I can see clearly now
4 The light at the end of the tunnel is a train
3 Finally, I've got some people I can relate to.  Thanks, Cat!
2 I'm going to have to think about this some more.
1 I'm feeling so free and easy that I don't care.

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